Theodore Dalrymple
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The idea that giant institutions are efficient is a primitive superstition that daily experience disproves, so is just the kind of thing that British governments are inclined to believe.
I do not often agree with the Prison Reform Trust, but on the proposed construction of giant prisons - the criminal justice system's answer to giant casinos, I suppose - I do wholeheartedly.
The dangers of gigantism in prison are very great. Running a prison without resort to brutality requires a delicate balancing act. The necessary co-operation of prisoners cannot be obtained by brute force alone, but staff need to maintain the upper hand. As every prisoner knows, most brutality in prison comes from prisoners, not staff. When the staff lose control, brutality increases.
I've seen this for myself in extreme form when I visited Lurigancho prison in Lima, Peru, years ago. It had 7,000 inmates. I visited the comparatively salubrious part, el jardín, the garden, so-called because there was a tree somewhere in it. Brutal as it was, it was like a garden party compared with the part reserved for the worst prisoners, where the staff never ventured. I observed it from a roof, and within a few minutes saw one prisoner try to kill another with a huge shark hook. Food was thrown over the wall to the prisoners.
No doubt it has improved greatly since then, but huge numbers are not easy to control, even with the best will (and technology) in the world. La Santé in Paris, the largest prison in France, is notorious for its brutality, much worse by all accounts than anything in Britain; and although the Government will claim that it will never cut corners to produce the same conditions in Britain, who will believe it? The temptation to park large numbers of prisoners together and leave them to get on with it will be great, especially in times of economic stringency. And most times are times of economic stringency.
Of course, some might think that more unpleasantness is just what prisoners need, that our prisons are much too soft. This is a perennial complaint: I remember more than a third of a century ago, when conditions were much harder than now, joining a magistrates' tour of a prison, in the course which one magistrate extolled the disgusting food with the words that he wouldn't mind moving in and living off it himself. I was impressed neither by his honesty nor his humanity.
The main purpose of prison is to keep wrongdoers off the streets for as long as necessary, which is usually much longer than our courts acknowledge. It is not to brutalise or humiliate prisoners, which vast and impersonal prisons are more likely to do. Huge prisons do not make us modern, any more than model rockets made Zambia a space power.
The author is a former prison doctor
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Crime and coppers are two sides of the same coin,an incestuous relationship that excludes the public, but the public is NOT innocent. Nigeria want those who respond to letters offering criminal gains to be prosecuted.Then no one would complain. Same applies to drug users, buyers of fakes etc.
ged, manchester,
Until you inderstand some of the most able brains are involved in crime, and the least capable fighting them.Not just the police, but those with serious political and romantic problems. You will never solve this problem which gets worse every day as more find crime profitable,
ged, manchester,
If only we spent as much time discussing the victims.
Mike, Berlin,
Lee of Windsor is just one more sad person who "jus't don't get it". Anyone can be in the wrong place at the wrong time, or just know the wrong people and find themslef in the very abuse prison system. Prison is meant to isolate, yes. But not to brualtise those who can be reformed.
Tom McGuire, Castellon, Spain
Graham, Southport. Please! Most child murderers are the parents or drunk drivers. You have bought into the urban legend of the Stranger. And keep in mind that paedophilia is not a crime. The action is the crime, not the mental problem.
The Mark of Cain
Spain
Tom McGuire, Castellon, Spain
More namby pamby nonsense. If you want to make a prison a deterrent it should be so vile as no one of even a criminal mind would dare be imprisoned. Build ten of these and watch the crime rate drop. There are plenty of rocks off the coast of Scotland just waiting to become GB Alcatraz. Blair first.
jdpriddle, Bath,
Frankly, I could give a damn about offenders' human rights. They should have thought of that before committing the crime . All I know is that dangerous criminals need to be taken out of society so that law-abiding, decent citizens can sleep soundly in their beds, and walk the streets safely.
Nicholas Lee, Windsor, UK
People commit crime because of poor socialisation, abuse, discrimination and marginalisation. Each and everyone of us could become criminals given the right environmental factors. We need to start reforming society and prisons to reduce criminality not lock everyone up!!
Mark Walters, London,
anthony Graham (sic). Dr Dalrymple is a well-respected international commentator on social issues who uses his vast experience and insight to make telling, insightful observations. You would do well to read more of his material before rushing into print. He is the antithesis of a "do-gooder".
Dan , Waterford, Ireland
Theodore Dalrymple states,"The main purpose of prison is to keep wrongdoers off the streets for as long as necessary" - no mention of rehabilitation? I would also have expected him, as a former prison doctor, to have touched on additional concerns for mentally ill inmates in such establishments.
Judi Martin, Maryculter, Aberdeenshire
J Baker, Dr Dalrymple is very well-qualified to comment on prisons, having spent most of his life dealing with prisoners. You wrong too about the main purpose of prison. It is confinement, nothing more. Deterrence is at best a by-product. You are naive indeed to think prisons rehabilitate offenders.
cat osb, Surrey,
len perth australia. could'nt not agree with you more. there are lots of cases in which physical punishment would be more appropriate than putting someone in prison or could be combined with a reduced prison term with only the 'hard core' being put in jail.generally thugs dont like physical pain.
stephen baron, leith, tasmania
Brutalise? You mean like these people did to their victims?? Good. Make the prisons even larger - who cares, so long as they cannot inflict more pain on society. Being nice to these people is what encourages them to continue brutalising society. Get real.
kr, cap ferrat, France
More sickening doo-goodery from a misguided altruist doctor.
There should be 'underground' prisons for the most violent,pederasts,child killers etc.
And give them the option of euthanasia-and do us all a big favour.
antony Graham, southport, England
As ever, Dr. Dalrymple cuts to the heart of the matter. The challenge we face is to behave justly towards both society and offenders. Society deserves better protection from offenders, through longer sentences. However, brutalising offenders with vast institutions only heightens the eventual problem
Oliver, London, UK
Len, Perth, Australia: Singapore is also easier to control considering it is simply a city with a popultion that is less than half the size of London. What works here will not work in England.
Rob, Singapore,
Rather than penal gigantism why not adopt the Singapore strategy where they are actually going to close at least one prison because they do not have enough criminals. The laws there, including caning are very strict, much stricter than Australia or the UK where the damp feather seems to be the way.
Len, Perth, Australia
Is it not obvious to everyone that to escape any prison "brutality" is simply to obey the law. No one today is put in prison because they are debtors, are poor, or disadvantaged. They are put in prison for criminal conduct that violate the laws of society. Those prisons are also a deterrent.
Bob Evans, Anaheim, California
The main purpose of prison is not "to keep wrongdoers off the streets for as long as necessary" but to provide a deterent against crime, protect the public and rehabilitate offenders. A prison doctor is no more qualified to comment on such matters than a prison janitor.
J Baker, Singapore, Singapore
Kiran Bedi introduced Vipassana meditation into Delhi's notorious 10,000-inmate gaol, with courses of up to 1000 inmates, and tremendous results. Such moves which can change entrenched anti-social habit patterns are key, whatever the scale of the prison, and have shown benefits in several countries.
Faustino, Brisbane, Australia